The Sinclair QL Forum

Blessed are the nay-sayers for the future is theirs! (Or is it?)

In the mean time we wait for some test results from Derek. See where we go from there..

pjw wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:13 pm Blessed are the nay-sayers for the future is theirs! (Or is it?)

In the mean time we wait for some test results from Derek. See where we go from there..

Sorry, a little delay, had some other problems to attend to. My house Electric circuit breakers kept on tripping. The fault was traced to Clothes Dryer, that apparentley had over heated and condensation had accumulated in the heater compartment, shorting out the live to earth connections. After cleaning, all working perfectly.

I will get the A500 up and running tomorrow.

The Qdos Classic Kick rom should be loaded okay from the PiStorm.

Derek_Stewart wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:57 pm I will get the A500 up and running tomorrow.

Please keep us updated. But remember PiStorm ist not PiStorm. We need to look at the EMU68 emulation, Musashi is too slow.

Stupid question, but how is an emulated processor on a real QL going to be better than an emulated processor in sQLux or similar? Since the emulated Io is superior to genuine IO in every way, couldn't we just make a QL-fitting carrier board for a CM4 for the QL case?

Dave wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:07 pm Stupid question, but how is an emulated processor on a real QL going to be better than an emulated processor in sQLux or similar? Since the emulated Io is superior to genuine IO in every way, couldn't we just make a QL-fitting carrier board for a CM4 for the QL case?

Had a similar thought:

Peter wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:58 pm Effectively, a QL PiStorm would only use the keyboard of the QL - something that is easier to just feed into sQLux.

Dave wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:07 pm Stupid question, but how is an emulated processor on a real QL going to be better than an emulated processor in sQLux or similar? Since the emulated Io is superior to genuine IO in every way, couldn't we just make a QL-fitting carrier board for a CM4 for the QL case?

That question is very valid, but that very same question would then, at least partially, apply to Gold and SuperGold cards, just with "real" CPUs. Only some of the QL's peripherals are really "worthy" of being re-used in a modern, fast computer. I'd see PiStorm (apart from the CPU, which is emulated instead of "real") as some sort of evolvement of the SuperGold Card. Once you replace all the non-optimal components a BBQL brings - well the only thing that's left really is the keyboard (and it's not really a good one, to be honest).

PiStorm might have quite a bit more relevance on the Amiga that brings a lot of custom chipware that's so deeply embedded in the system that you will definitely want to preserve so it still stays "an Amiga". The QL, well not so much. Would it make sense to still stay with a QIMSI or QLSD for storage, for example, when PiStorm offers much simpler and more comfortable options? Would it be a sensible approach to put a 16-color ULA in that thing when you can have much simpler 16-bit color from the Pi emulation? I don't think so. (That's the old "Ship of Theseus" paradoxon where Plutarch wondered if a QL that has all its parts replaced would still be a QL )

On the QL you wouldn't be able to fit a PiStorm into the case... and anyway it's not an 8 bit multiplexed form factor, so it would have to go onto an external board. You'd probably create a SGC-like interface for the board to plug into, or create a new PiStorm board with the QL's expansion connector and the Pi sitting just outside the case on the left. The actual PCB is quite simple, being bus transcievers and flip-flops to multiplex the 16 line Pi interface with the system buses.

For the QL you'd probably run the emulation as a 68020 to give you extra address space and base the ROM on the patched SGC ROM.

You would probably add a simulated QIMSI-type SD card type hard drive.

In terms of RAM, you could leave the lower 128K as system "slow RAM" and have a few MB in the processor's virtual RAM address space.

So, in effect it's not really much different to an SGC it's just that the ROM, RAM, CPU and a small set of peripherals are run within an emulation.

People have got the bus arbitration stuff done for the Atari ST so it should work.

Of course, you could start out with just a 68000 emulation and virtual RAM as a test-bed and build up from there.

stephen_usher wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:56 pm Of course, you could start out with just a 68000 emulation and virtual RAM as a test-bed and build up from there.

Yeah, my idea, back when I was hoping to get my hands on a Pi Zero 2W but got denied by the high prices due to the pandemic,was to initially just see if one could replace the 68008 with something similar and get it to work (so no speed up just a CPU replacement). Then, just go from there to see how far one could can get. Also, besides extra memory, SD interface, potentially better video (HDMI out), I believe it also offers access to networking.

tofro wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:23 am PiStorm might have quite a bit more relevance on the Amiga that brings a lot of custom chipware that's so deeply embedded in the system that you will definitely want to preserve so it still stays "an Amiga". The QL, well not so much.

I think that is the essential difference. Also the Amiga keyboard was more appreciated than the QL keyboard.

stephen_usher wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:56 pm On the QL you wouldn't be able to fit a PiStorm into the case... and anyway it's not an 8 bit multiplexed form factor, so it would have to go onto an external board.

Hardware is the smaller part of a potential QL PiStorm project. It could be redesigned to fit the QL case.
I'd expect 90% of labour and problems on the software side.

Peter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:05 pm I think that is the essential difference. Also the Amiga keyboard was more appreciated than the QL keyboard.

I don't really like my Amiga 600 keyboard. The keys are so soft and mushy. Now true that the QL isn't better, though it is different. I think if the case design of the QL were more like the Amiga (not that I'd be a fan of that) where the case slants towards you, the QL keys might feel a bit better. I haven't tried a fat wrist-pad with the QL, or the legs to prop it (or a combo of both) to see how it would feel. I did used to put the QL on my lap back in the 90s and that felt ok.