ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

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Sparrowhawk
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ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by Sparrowhawk »

I'm not sure if this is pure coincidence, but the layout of the Atari ST Basic (Metacomco) looks remarkably like the layout of a BBQL in monitor mode:
Atari_ST_BASIC.png
Atari_ST_BASIC.png (4.21 KiB) Viewed 5475 times
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_ST_BASIC

Anyone know if this is pure chance or whether Metacomco used their experience on the QL to model their environment?


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by stephen_usher »

It's a pity that the BASIC itself is so basic and if they did learn anything then it wasn't how to write a good language.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by Derek_Stewart »

Hi,

When I used to use an Atari ST, I would use GFAor HiSoft Basic, these are nmuch better development platforms.

However fitting an Extended 4 QL Emulator board, made the Atari much more interesting to use.


Regards,

Derek
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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by tcat »

Hi,

Just paying a visit after a while.

ST BASIC was not a bad prog in my opinion, it introduced a novelty of windowing, 4 distinct windows, list, edit, output and command.

Was not of the fastests, that is for sure, but featured builtin debugger, with trace capability!

It did not catch on, lack of programmes written in, no code share facility or regular coverage in mags.

It had easy VDI/AES/TOS and assembly interfacing.
E.G. this clears complete workstation, so screen looks like GFA run window.

Code: Select all

10 poke contrl, 3: REM Clear Workstation opcode #3
20 poke contrl+2, 0
30 poke contrl+6, 0
40 vdisys(1)


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by stephen_usher »

I think the biggest problem was that although it was supplied with the machine there wasn't a paper manual to support it.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by tcat »

Yes, indeed. Remember my 1st ST 520 machine, had just owner's manual + quick basic manual, listing keywords only.
There was no Logo manual either, these had to be bought from ATARI corp. separately.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by stephen_usher »

I got my 520STM in mid-1988 and I didn't get any BASIC manual, just the green and white one with the very basic how to plug it in and use GEM.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by NormanDunbar »

As far as I'm concerned, Sinclair manuals, from the zx81 at least, were extremely good. Lots of information, including the system variables etc. Brilliant.

Cheers,
Norm.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by bwinkel67 »

NormanDunbar wrote:As far as I'm concerned, Sinclair manuals, from the zx81 at least, were extremely good. Lots of information, including the system variables etc. Brilliant.

Cheers,
Norm.
I loved the ZX81 manual. It taught me how to code.

SuperBASIC is great because it can be used as a scripting language or a programming language...makes things so much easier.


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Re: ST Basic - inspired by QDOS?

Post by NormanDunbar »

Brane2 wrote:Why force basic on everyone ? What's so great about it ?
You do realise this was all way back in the 1980s? Yes there were other languages, but very few for the fledgling microcomputers of the day.

The Jupiter Ace had Forth. That sold "well". But BASIC was the most popular, given no doubt, that it stands for Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code.

Emphasis on"beginners".

Switch on, start typing. Direct commands get something to happen right now, or type a stack of commands to run as a "script" at some future point. None of this Amiga stuff where you switch on, load the Workbench, then start typing.

Thinking about that, Python on the Raspberry Pi, using Thonny, is very similar to BASIC back in the day. Direct commands or a script. Job done.

Fortran, COBOL, Pascal were pretty much either not implemented or available on micros back then. C was, on the Spectrum at least, available -- it's where I taught myself C, on a Spectrum with a tape drive and Hisoft C.

I did have Metacomco C and Pascal on my QL, when they became available, but by then I was working in IT and could actually afford to buy new languages to experiment with.

What was the language available for some of the very first "home" computers? Bill Gates' Basic.

BASIC was almost all there was back then, unless you had a mainframe (which I didn't have, but used a few, daily, for the next 20 odd years) and those pretty much only used COBOL.

Plus, the Biggie, BASIC was designed at Dartmouth to be used as a teaching language. That was it's job and one it did reasonably well. These days, Scratch then Python seems to be the way, and why not, we have the power and resources to implement it, even on a Raspberry Pi Zero. CPU/RAM is more easily available these days, and much cheaper.

Too many people these days poo poo BASIC from a position of hindsight. A bit like saying "oh, I never use GOTO" -- I call bullshit. Yes GOTO can be bad, spaghetti code for example, but it can also be the best solution. And let's see anyone write a decent sized Assembly Language application without using a "goto".

SuperBASIC was a huge step forward in as much as it was structured. Nothing else at the time came close. Most other Basics had FOR- NEXT as the only structure. GOSUBs helped a bit, but SuperBASIC had those and REPeat loops, and proper FuNctions and PROCedures. I'd even go so far as to say that it was slightly Pascalish.

What languages did you use on your first micro? And when? Back in the 80s or much later when things had moved on.

Cheers,
Norm.


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