CBZone

A place to discuss general QL issues.
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Haemogoblin
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CBZone

Post by Haemogoblin »

Hi guys

I'm still messing about with my QL, actually been struggling to find software to run on it. If it wasn't for Dilwyn's site I'd be snookered.

I found a game called CBzone which acts a little odd via QPC2 and even worse on my actual QL. Is this designed for an expanded QL or something?

Cheers


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vanpeebles
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Re: CBZone

Post by vanpeebles »

What does it do when you run it?


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dilwyn
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Re: CBZone

Post by dilwyn »

Haemogoblin wrote:Hi guys

I'm still messing about with my QL, actually been struggling to find software to run on it. If it wasn't for Dilwyn's site I'd be snookered.

I found a game called CBzone which acts a little odd via QPC2 and even worse on my actual QL. Is this designed for an expanded QL or something?

Cheers
CBZone was ported from another computer in 1995, so was written well before QPC2 came about.

Its manual (it was written by Timothy J West and his contact details at the time are in the README_QL file) doesn't explicitly say it doesn't run on unexpanded memory systems, just that it would run on Gold Card (slowly) and Super Gold Card, but might struggle (or in the author's words "unplayable") on Trump Card and older memory expansions.

There are some general suggestions for getting these older (i.e. pre-QPC2) games ot work on QPC2:

Start the emulator in a QL-compatible video mode. It is VERY important to START the emulator in this mode, starting it in another mode and switching to mode 4 or mode 8 later might not switch the screen and system variables to the required addresses for QL compatibility. If unsure how to do this, in the configuration screen which appears on startup of QPC2 (if it doesn't show, the emulator should be started by holding down SHIFT while you click on the QPC2 icon in Windows), under COLOUR DEPTH select QL Colours. Under Resolution, select 512x256. Optionally, under Emulation set the Memory value to a value not more than Super Gold Card 4MB memory if the software says it works on Super Gold Card (it won't normally make a difference but you never know).

What this does is force the emulator to a 512x256 screen at address (dec.) 131072 like a QL, and system variables to go at 163840 like a QL. You can check this in QPC2 by typing the command PRINT SCR_BASE and PRINT VER$(-2) for screen address and system variables respectively, This might not prove much - current versions of QPC2 report the system variables at 163840 and always seem to have a "QL" screen at 131072 which only becomes obvious after a QPC_QLSCREMU command (see blow, and you should read the manual to see how the various parameters possible for that command affect how it works),

I can't remember if CBZone runs in mode 4 or mode 8 - if need be enter a MODE 4 or MODE 8 command as relevant.

QPC2 has a command called QPC_QLSCREMU which can help when running older games. What it does is shadow copy the original QL screen memory address to the top left of the current screen. It deosn't do miracles but can sometimes help if you are trying ot run a game in any other colour depth or resolution.

If you suspect the program might not be compatible with QPC2, one easy way to check is to try running it on QemuLator, which even on an unregistered copy emulates a baseline BBQL quite well with 128K or up to either 256K or 384K (can't remember which) of RAM. QemuLator lets you use all QL ROM versions, so you can try the game on versions JM, JS or Minerva ROMs, for example.


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Haemogoblin
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Re: CBZone

Post by Haemogoblin »

I only tested it on QPCII before taking the floppy over to my QL, it ran like a dog and then I realised I could see text at the bottom of the screen. Basically it was the command prompt, which has appeared. This also happened in the emulator, so i'm guessing perhaps it needs something with a little more umph!

Pity as it looked like a nice game, I did manage to play Tron2010! :D

I wish I could say this has been a stand alone experience, but I've failed to get a fair few programs to run. Which I think due to me not running a more up to date rom with the pointer function.


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dilwyn
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Re: CBZone

Post by dilwyn »

Haemogoblin wrote:I only tested it on QPCII before taking the floppy over to my QL, it ran like a dog and then I realised I could see text at the bottom of the screen. Basically it was the command prompt, which has appeared. This also happened in the emulator, so i'm guessing perhaps it needs something with a little more umph!

Pity as it looked like a nice game, I did manage to play Tron2010! :D

I wish I could say this has been a stand alone experience, but I've failed to get a fair few programs to run. Which I think due to me not running a more up to date rom with the pointer function.
As strange as it sounds, assuming CBzone doesn't need pointer function, the pointer system itself might be upsetting these older programs. No different to trying to get old DOS or Win 3.1 games working on Win7 and Win 10 I guess.
If you have a system without pointer, try it on that to see. Sadly, QPC2 can't do that, but oridinary BBQL can of course, as well as QDOS-based emulators such as QemuLator and QL2K.

Trying to get some of these older programs (and games seem to be the worst) up and running can be a real test of an experienced user let alone someone relatively new to QL. This type of software was written anything up to 30 years ago and QL systems moved on, just like Windows did.


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vanpeebles
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Re: CBZone

Post by vanpeebles »

Check out Voyage of the Beano and Ekotek the Flight Sim on Dilwyns site for some interesting games :)


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Haemogoblin
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Re: CBZone

Post by Haemogoblin »

I'm trying to run cbzone on a ql with a JM from and 512kb ram expansion. Given what's been said, I think I'm now pretty confident my machine isn't powerful enough to run the program.


dilwyn wrote:
Haemogoblin wrote:I only tested it on QPCII before taking the floppy over to my QL, it ran like a dog and then I realised I could see text at the bottom of the screen. Basically it was the command prompt, which has appeared. This also happened in the emulator, so i'm guessing perhaps it needs something with a little more umph!

Pity as it looked like a nice game, I did manage to play Tron2010! :D

I wish I could say this has been a stand alone experience, but I've failed to get a fair few programs to run. Which I think due to me not running a more up to date rom with the pointer function.
As strange as it sounds, assuming CBzone doesn't need pointer function, the pointer system itself might be upsetting these older programs. No different to trying to get old DOS or Win 3.1 games working on Win7 and Win 10 I guess.
If you have a system without pointer, try it on that to see. Sadly, QPC2 can't do that, but oridinary BBQL can of course, as well as QDOS-based emulators such as QemuLator and QL2K.

Trying to get some of these older programs (and games seem to be the worst) up and running can be a real test of an experienced user let alone someone relatively new to QL. This type of software was written anything up to 30 years ago and QL systems moved on, just like Windows did.


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Haemogoblin
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Re: CBZone

Post by Haemogoblin »

Unless I'm mistaken, upgrading a QL can be some what haphazard. As it requires a gold card, so you have enough ram to run the updated roms. But the gold cards are hard to come by are they not? And when they do, they're pretty expensive.


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vanpeebles
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Re: CBZone

Post by vanpeebles »

You don't really need a gold card. One of the best expansions out new recently was the Qubide from Jose Leandro, which gave you an ide port plus an extra 512k of ram for a bargain price. Or QL-SD which was also very handy.


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Haemogoblin
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Re: CBZone

Post by Haemogoblin »

I realise this is going a bit off topic, but as we're on the subject. What expansions are available for the QL and what are worth getting to improve the system? As I newcomer, I'd honestly love to know. Ive read there are ROM updates, that introduce a GUI and improvements over the earlier revisions of QDOS. I didn't bother looking further as it sounded liked my machine wouldn't be able to run it, even with the 512kb expansion.

I love the micro drives, I just hate how hardly any of the dozen cassettes I have, don't work. The SD card looked great, but I was under the impression they come in limited runs and tend to sell quickly.

I'm grateful for my floppy drive, otherwise I think my QL experience would have been very different. I have to say coming from an Amiga, Acorn, Speccy background. The QL is surprisingly pricey. I understand that old hardware is rare, but software is also pretty expensive compared to other platforms. As a newcomer, that is probably the biggest hurdle I've faced and found a little off putting. Thats the main thing that put me off buying a trump card recently. I can't thank dilwyn enough for his website! :-D


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