RasPiQL

Discussion and advice about emulating the QL on other machines.
ones' complement
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Re: RasPiQL

Post by ones' complement »

Ruptor wrote:
Exile wrote:I use 120GB 2.5" SSDs. I think the last one I bought was a Gigabyte one (currently £14.99 on Amazon). The Pi4 is quite picky on the SATA to USB3 adaptor chips that it supports, so I buy those cables from either Pimoroni or Pihut, to make sure they are compatible. They are about £6.
Can you use this on USB instead of SATA?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394169017781 ... BM8r750-5g
Errrrrrr, check the negative feedback on that item :o


Exile
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Re: RasPiQL

Post by Exile »

Errrrrrr, check the negative feedback on that item :o
I fully agree. This is from the feedback:
I opened the device to find a small sd card inside a reader. It formats to 64gm (half will not format). In no way is it a usbc 8tb ssd.


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Ruptor
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Re: RasPiQL

Post by Ruptor »

ones' complement wrote:Errrrrrr, check the negative feedback on that item :o
OK thanks. Yes I thought it was cheap but it was the first one in the list. Can a USB drive do the same as USB to SATA though?. There are plenty of USB3 big storage external SSDs cheaper than internal SATAs but are they slower is the real question?


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Re: RasPiQL

Post by Exile »

Ruptor wrote: Can a USB drive do the same as USB to SATA though?. There are plenty of USB3 big storage external SSDs cheaper than internal SATAs but are they slower is the real question?
Yes it can, but I think the key thing is that the Pi4 is picky when it comes to the USB3 to SATA chipsets that it supports. You may be lucky, but it may also give you pain, and either not work at all, or work very slowly.

120GB is a lot of storage for £15, plus the £6 I mentioned for guaranteed working adapter (plus postage obviously!). If you have a spare external USB3 based SSD perhaps it is worth an experiment, but if you need to buy something new then, personally, I'd recommend the peace of mind route and buy the adapter plus a bare SSD SATA drive.


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Peter
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Re: RasPiQL

Post by Peter »

pjw wrote:Yes, I would be happy with a hardware QL (in addition) for my QL "work", but I NEED MORE SPEED for that to make it viable. I could possibly manage with 3-5 times the speed of the Q68, 128Mb and a more flexible display geometry (eg HD) but right now that seems over the horizon, so we soldier on with the possibilities we have..
Not completely over the horizon, as the 68060 provides this speed and I have (rusted) experience in designing with this CPU.
I'm not sure what you expect in terms of graphics. 1920 x 1080 in highcolor consumes over 100 times more memory than the QL graphics routines were designed for.
Would a resolution like 960 x 540 that just maps to 1920 x 1080 by doubling pixel size cover your needs?


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Re: RasPiQL

Post by pjw »

Derek_Stewart wrote:Hi Per,

With regards to moving the RPI to SSD, a simple eeb earch should enough results, however, try this:
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/boo ... y-pi-4-usb
Thanks, I'll look into it
Derek_Stewart wrote:I would dump Windows now, and move to Linux, which Licence fee free. More secure operating system free of virus and spyware.

Your existing hardware is supported.

Most Windows software can be run under Wine, or there are Linux alternatives all free.
Well, for starters, Ive already paid the Window Tax, so I might as well continue to enjoy my familiar environment for a while yet. I'll also continue to keep a beady eye on Linux as Ive done since RedHat V1.00.

The thing that I find so alluring with the Pi is its modesty wrt to size, price, consumption, etc and that it is currently actively developed and supported and will remain so for quite a while yet. The day will come when we'll laugh at the thought of those massive, noisy, power-hungry under-desk PCs we had back in the day!

Ive got an old Macbook Pro running Ubunto with Wine, but I hate using it; its such a massive compromise compared to the other systems Ive got. Basically I only use it to play DVDs in bed when Im sick (as laptops nowadays dont sport internal DVD players any more :( Yup, Im that old fashioned; I still sometimes watch DVDs.)

I doubt whether some of the Windows software Im addicted to will run under Wine on the Pi!


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Re: RasPiQL

Post by pjw »

Derek_Stewart wrote:<>

I do not think that comparing a system that runs at Ghz with multiple CPU cores againist a single core CPU running at Mhz speeds is fair.
Im not trying to be fair, Im trying to ascertain facts! Im also not trying to denigrate the Q68! One man designing his own computer from scratch is a significant achievement! Not to mention the one-man show that builds them by hand at home! Kudos!

However, these efforts are limited by the components available, and theres little they or we can do about that except hope that developments continue and that those able to work the magic may long continue to do so!

Compared to the original QL, Q68 is a massive improvement, but when, in about 2000, the new extended colour versions of SMSQ appeared, hardware implementations of the QL started to lag behind, as they simply did not have the oomph to comfortably implement those improvements.

What I mean by comfortable is that when hardware and software are in tune, the look and feel of the interface should not get in the way of what your trying to do. A machine may calculate a spreadsheet quickly or slowly, but the user will be attuned to that, knowing that a very large spreadsheet will take time, while the machine will rapidly zip though a page or two of calculation. But if the machine struggles to move a window from A to B, then that feels annoying. That is not comfortable.

For what I use my QL for these days, the Q68 is mostly plenty fast enough to do the calculations, compiling, assembling, etc. But the interface lags behind. And with 16 bit colour one wants to do other things, like simple picture manipulation, and for that too, it is rather too slow (to my mind - and with no disparagement of technical achievement of those who designed or built it intended or implied!)

I really do like that Q68 runs on the "bare metal" without the middleman of some other OS getting in between. That is a true achievement of the hardware and software people behind it. Different transistors, different microcode; whether it runs on true Motorla or other cherished chips is irrelevant to my mind. Its all emulation in the final analysis.

The RasPi is a compromise. It has advantages and disadvantages. When Im doing my thing in QL-land, it doesnt really bother me that there are two additional layers of emulation underneath (Java and Linux) except that every now and again they break through and one has to go into that foreign land full of hostile natives and deal with some issue, bible in hand, in a foreign tongue. After throwing around some spells and many curses, one may again slip back into one's reasonably comfortable home environment. If one wants a quiet holiday away from it all to see how the other 99% live, it is just a few clicks away to get one's news fix or relax with a movie..

And the nice bit is that, touching the tiny grey box it feels warm, but not hot, theres no whirring of fans, ie it uses little power but still does a great job. Im not ready to jump ship yet, but may slowly migrate and see how it goes. Early days..


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Re: RasPiQL

Post by pjw »

Peter wrote:
pjw wrote:Yes, I would be happy with a hardware QL (in addition) for my QL "work", but I NEED MORE SPEED for that to make it viable. I could possibly manage with 3-5 times the speed of the Q68, 128Mb and a more flexible display geometry (eg HD) but right now that seems over the horizon, so we soldier on with the possibilities we have..
Not completely over the horizon, as the 68060 provides this speed and I have (rusted) experience in designing with this CPU.
I'm not sure what you expect in terms of graphics. 1920 x 1080 in highcolor consumes over 100 times more memory than the QL graphics routines were designed for.
Would a resolution like 960 x 540 that just maps to 1920 x 1080 by doubling pixel size cover your needs?
Sorry to disappoint, but its unlikely to suffice. For starters, as you know, I had a Q60 @ 80MHz back in the day, the fastest QL hardware available then (and now?) It still didnt feel "comfortable" (see my previous post), which is why it eventually gave way to QPC2 and then fell out of use altogether. I had other issues with the Q60 too, but they would probably be moot in a new design. Still the speed "problem" wont go away. Also, Im now so used to the space a large screen gives me that I would find it hard to revert.

I already use 960x540 on my 13" laptop (as 1920x1080 has become unreadable on such a small screen for my aging eyes.) When I went for my holiday I was hoping to do lots of QL stuff on that laptop. Sadly, it did not go to plan. I found it cramped and annoying, and my plan B, connecting to a HD TV, didnt work either as the dots bled making text unreadable. (Lesson learnt: a TV is not a monitor!) So I ended up picking fruit and mowing the lawn all August and couldnt force myself to do a single thing on my QL :(

But, perhaps thats just me so I wouldnt worry too much about it :)

I know Ive harped on this before (and you have disagreed with me before ;) ) but methinks some kind of graphics card (with as a minimum block drawing and scrolling functionality) might work and make all the difference. Another thing: Have you ever considered Buffee? They claim their product will be a MC68040 drop-in replacement (when its finally ready). The "microcode" will be ARM assembler - no Linux middleman.


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XorA
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Re: RasPiQL

Post by XorA »

I know Ive harped on this before (and you have disagreed with me before ;) ) but methinks some kind of graphics card (with as a minimum block drawing and scrolling functionality) might work and make all the difference. Another thing: Have you ever considered Buffee? They claim their product will be a MC68040 drop-in replacement (when its finally ready). The "microcode" will be ARM assembler - no Linux middleman.
That already exists in Emu68 and PiStorm boards. Buffee has been vapourware for a very long time!


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Re: RasPiQL

Post by pjw »

XorA wrote:
I know Ive harped on this before (and you have disagreed with me before ;) ) but methinks some kind of graphics card (with as a minimum block drawing and scrolling functionality) might work and make all the difference. Another thing: Have you ever considered Buffee? They claim their product will be a MC68040 drop-in replacement (when its finally ready). The "microcode" will be ARM assembler - no Linux middleman.
That already exists in Emu68 and PiStorm boards. Buffee has been vapourware for a very long time!
Everything is vapourware until it arrives! At least there has been continuous movement since 2019, and all the excuses for delays appear (to me) to be reasonably explained.

So if drop-in replacements for some faster variant of the MC68 already exist, whats happening with these? Arent they any good?


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