Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

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StarshipUK
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by StarshipUK »

XorA wrote:
Are you using a Gotek drive or the HxC floppy emulator which is more expensive than the cheaper Gotek clones? I didn't think the Gotek drive worked with DD disk images - certainly I have a flopper interface here which doesn't work with a Trump Card. If the Gotek works, then yes, the market for disk images might be a bit bigger, but I would estimate the number of QL users using a HxC floppy emulator with the QL could be counted on one hand - certainly those that buy the Trump Card clones seem to be ordering disk units as well.
There are two models of gotek, a HD and a DD one. But I don't know how that affects the HxC firmware for them.

Graeme
Using a standard HD Gotek with 3 digit display with HxC firmware loaded with no problems and not much more expensive than a bog standard gotek without the firmware loaded nowdays with plenty of people selling them with the firmware already on them for Amiga, Atari and Amstrad - at the time it was cheaper to buy the one for the QL from a Canadian seller where it also came with a 8GB micro USB pen. I actually have two now as one is loaded with games for my Thomson TO8, and now fitted in the external TO8 FDD housing: http://dcmoto.free.fr/programmes/_html/ ... to_fd.html


StarshipUK
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by StarshipUK »

swensont wrote:StarshipUK,

For someone coming to our forum and asking for help, you sure are whining a lot. Others did provide some pointers to how these games might be made to work on a disk drive system, but apparently that was not good enough:

" If you are trying to promote the system (rather than just make a profit out of it) then I do not see any issue with making the working scripts or knowledge available to all."

It can be rather hard to make available what is not available. You are assuming that those of us on the Board already know how to make these games work on disk drive and that we are holding back for some nefarious reason.

Then you start a tirade about how the QL is not comparable with the Spectrum, etc, etc, might be compared to the +4, etc, etc. Nothing like pissing off those you are asking help from.

Thanks for dropping by, but no need to come back until you can have a more congenial attitude.

Tim Swenson
QL user for 30 years
Yeah mate, the Spectrum was successful where the +4 and QL were both commercial flops (QL sold 150,000 and Plus 4 400,000 or 1 Million if you include the C16) and sold much fewer units than the spectrum, although as a result of its UK failure the +4 does have a big following in Hungary where they were sold off which kept it going a bit longer. However the point I was trying to get across - this is the only system which is difficult to find games for where all these other systems have games readily available. I expect given time the same will be said for the QL, but obviously that time is not until a few people die and leave the scene to allow others to take over without risk or worried about getting their arses sued (much like the stuck up Jaguar community, which thought their system was still commercially viable, but which has now finally seen the light and is supporting a SD card in development).

Now I am a new user (we all have to start somewhere eh?), but I do own close to 200 different retro systems and for most of them I just do not have time to learn everything, so only have time to learn the basics. I have also left the QL to later as its not an overly popular machine and I had a feeling I would get grief from the QL community trying to help out. The system is one of the most difficult I have come across, if not the most difficult. Some games were made for use the the microdrive, and some with floppy. Some need more memory to run, others will only run on standard memory without extensions. Some can be made to run by modding the boot files with an extra command, while others cannot - there is no definitive list of all games that were made for the system either, but a few lists and listings all over the place which I have already found gaps in. When I was referring to Baron Rogue needing a dongle, it does say here it needs a key cartridge to run: http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/updates.html which I was presuming is some kind of special security dongle\cartridge specific to this game. Now when I was told that some games needed machine code modification to run, then its a whole different ball game. Again its a shame notes were not kept on what games needed what modifications as its gonna piss off the purists big time in years to come, as well as make people wonder if there any major differences between the original and the modded version they are playing.

I apologise if being direct and honest offends you, but this is the way myself and many others see things. I dont care how long you have been using the system, but when you have more than 79 posts (which lets face it, it pretty low), you can then tell me to piss off mate.


RWAP
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by RWAP »

StarshipUK wrote: Using a standard HD Gotek with 3 digit display with HxC firmware loaded with no problems and not much more expensive than a bog standard gotek without the firmware loaded nowdays with plenty of people selling them with the firmware already on them for Amiga, Atari and Amstrad - at the time it was cheaper to buy the one for the QL from a Canadian seller where it also came with a 8GB micro USB pen. I actually have two now as one is loaded with games for my Thomson TO8, and now fitted in the external TO8 FDD housing: http://dcmoto.free.fr/programmes/_html/ ... to_fd.html
That is interesting - what interface are you using to connect the disk drive - I wonder if the later WD-1772 chip used on Trump Card 2 (and the clones from Tetroid) are the answer - in which case I can give Zaxon's flopper another try :)


RWAP
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by RWAP »

StarshipUK wrote: The system is one of the most difficult I have come across, if not the most difficult. Some games were made for use the the microdrive, and some with floppy. Some need more memory to run, others will only run on standard memory without extensions. Some can be made to run by modding the boot files with an extra command, while others cannot - there is no definitive list of all games that were made for the system either, but a few lists and listings all over the place which I have already found gaps in. When I was referring to Baron Rogue needing a dongle, it does say here it needs a key cartridge to run: http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/updates.html which I was presuming is some kind of special security dongle\cartridge specific to this game. Now when I was told that some games needed machine code modification to run, then its a whole different ball game. Again its a shame notes were not kept on what games needed what modifications as its gonna piss off the purists big time in years to come, as well as make people wonder if there any major differences between the original and the modded version they are playing.
A key cartridge is not a dongle - it is the original copy protected microdrive cartridge for the game. Luckily, since I managed to track down the copyright holder for Labochrome, based on his memory of the copy protection method, I found a way of getting around it. I have just not had the time to change the entry on the page on my RWAP Software site.

As for changes needed to each program - I guess the reason why I didn't keep notes was that the majority of the changes were made by me over the last 30 years based on trial and error and sometimes co-operating with others who had previously managed to get around the copy protection, OR had a later version of the software which had copy protection removed by the publisher. Plus I originally did all of this to safeguard my own personal collection of QL software - to allow me to use it on other systems and when master cartridges failed. That personal collection began morphing into an attempt at preserving QL software only a few years ago when I realised that I was running out of time and energy to continue.

There has never been a concerted community led initiative to preserve QL software or to overcome the various copy protection methods - the majority of software which has been listed online has been the same set of 10-20 games, most of which are still available to purchase on a commercial basis, whilst ignoring the 100s of titles which have been added to the Sinclair QL Homepage over the years and the 100s of further titles which are much harder to find and preserve.

Working out the method to remove the copy protection is never an automated method, apart from the few programs which use the old Sinclair Development Kit (FLOAD / FSAVE and FLRUN) where I managed to work out the changes needed to the kit to by pass the disabling of the editor, so I could enter SuperBASIC and use the normal SAVE routine.

There are many protection schemes, for example:
a) The Sinclair Development Kit was mainly issued to people who were having programs published by Sinclair - programs were still written in SuperBASIC, but stored using the tokenised version of the program, thus allowing them to load quickly. It included the ability to add copy protection and block access to the SuperBASIC interpreter. The downside is that when you bypass this and then SAVE the SuperBASIC program, it takes much longer to load, and needs more room on the microdrive cartridge.
b) A simplified form (similar to the copy protection afforded by the development kit) is to format the cartridge with a specific number in the directory header and check that number has not been altered (it is normally a random number).
c) Programs such as the Pawn, use a much more complex method whereby they load the program from specific sectors on a microdrive cartridge plus there was talk that the program used its own operating system !
d) Some programs use direct machine code access routines to look at specific sectors on a cartridge to see if they are marked as bad in the directory table, or deleted.
e) Some software requires the use of a plug-in dongle - although this is few and far between so far as I have seen

There are other routines which I have come across which are impossible to tell what they do and decode - particularly if you have a corrupt master cartridge - for example loading specific sectors from the cartridge over the top of some of the code already in memory.

For the purists (and masochists) - Outsoft's own preservation project is creating image dumps of microdrives and disks - although this is still rather hit and miss, particularly because of the age of many of the microdrive cartridges, you may need to merge 3 or 4 cartridges to get one good working one - not easy where microdrive cartridge images will undoubtedly be different for each cartridge (even if the same version of the program).

As for changes - programs which have been modded in some other method to add features or fix bugs tend to have an updates_doc document alongside them - that is something that most software authors have always been good at.

As for complaining about the availability of software free to download - have you looked at the wealth of games (including many former commercial titles) which appears on the Sinclair QL Homepage (somehow you seem to have ignored this, as you wanted help getting some original programs to run, which are available on that site). Getting more software added will always be a long drawn out process for various reasons:

a) There are very few people interested in spending time preserving and getting old QL software to work
b) Most of the people who are interested have been smeared and attacked on various places on the internet because they dare to believe in copyright
c) The copyright holders themselves are put off by finding that whilst their programs are still available to purchase commercially, they get put onto websites without any attempt to ask them and then when they insist their software is removed, they are again attacked for daring to ask
d) There are various formats for storing QL files in use - for example, disk .img, microdrive .mdv image, QL zipped files, q-emulator zipped files, QXL.win, HXE; plus lots of different combinations of hardware and emulated hardware
e) There is a distinct lack of volunteers to try and track down and contact copyright holders
f) QL software is expensive and you generally need several copies in order to make one working copy of a program.

In reality we need some sort of non-profit making organisation which would lead the preservation effort and obtain the copies of software which are required. The chances of that ever happening are minimal - as has been reflected by the complete silence since I said I was no longer willing to do any software preservation or tracking down of copyright holders due to the negative comments which my efforts had attracted from certain sectors.


StarshipUK
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by StarshipUK »

RWAP wrote:
StarshipUK wrote: Using a standard HD Gotek with 3 digit display with HxC firmware loaded with no problems and not much more expensive than a bog standard gotek without the firmware loaded nowdays with plenty of people selling them with the firmware already on them for Amiga, Atari and Amstrad - at the time it was cheaper to buy the one for the QL from a Canadian seller where it also came with a 8GB micro USB pen. I actually have two now as one is loaded with games for my Thomson TO8, and now fitted in the external TO8 FDD housing: http://dcmoto.free.fr/programmes/_html/ ... to_fd.html
That is interesting - what interface are you using to connect the disk drive - I wonder if the later WD-1772 chip used on Trump Card 2 (and the clones from Tetroid) are the answer - in which case I can give Zaxon's flopper another try :)
The trump card from the bloke in Russia: http://www.sellmyretro.com/offer/detail ... face-10861

I think it all comes down to the HxC firmware and disk coveter software which now works with most systems automatically including the more obscure ones (like the TO8 and QL) without any need for adjustment.

The only other item needed to get the solution to work is an old floppy cable, but straight with no crossover.

I never bought a flopper in the end and think the bloke has stopped selling them now anyway, and from what others were saying it did not sound promising.


RWAP
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by RWAP »

OK - I will re-try the flopper with the new QL interface - my guess is that I could not get it to work with my Trump Card (it worked with my Gold Card) because the original Trump Card only used a WD-1770 disk controller, which could not handle HD disks - the Trump Card 2, and tetroids interfaces use the later WD-1772 which can handle HD disks (although the interface can still only format them as DD disks).

The Flopper itself is a simple clone of the GoTek HD interface and uses the same software, so should work if the GoTek works


StarshipUK
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Re: Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

Post by StarshipUK »

I just used the blank floppy image that was uploaded here: http://qlforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2& ... =30#p13863

Took the blank disk image into Q Emulator on one drive, the ZIP file on the other, did the command to copy the files from the ZIP file to the floppy disk image (close qemulator after as it keeps the disk image file "Open\locked" and does not seem to save changes until you change the disk image or exit). I then run the HxC coverter tool to batch convert the disk images to hfe format. Then of course rename the file as DSKA0000.hfe , DSKA0001.hfe for the next and so on for the numbers on the Gotek to correctly associate with the disk. Finally I have a excel spreadsheet to show what number associates with what game, and got about 73 working as a result, although some might still have issues as I did not do much playtesting. Seems to work great and is what I was looking for, and a lot easier than having to haul 73 separate floppy disks to events, not to mention that old DD media is hard to find and will eventually degrade and become unusable.


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